Donor Diaries

Could a Facebook Scroll Save Your Life? | EP 33

• Season 6 • Episode 7

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What if a casual Sunday scroll through Facebook could save a life? In this heartfelt episode of Donor Diaries, Rich and Cali share the extraordinary story of how a social media post led to a life-saving kidney transplant and an unexpected lifelong connection.

Rich, living with polycystic kidney disease, feared the wait for a deceased donor and the possibility of having to go on dialysis, and took a leap of faith by sharing his story online. Cali, grieving the loss of her brother to the same disease, stumbled upon Rich’s post and felt an unshakable pull to help. Neither could have predicted the twist of fate that would link them even closer—Rich had once been her brother’s boss.

Their journey is one of vulnerability, determination, and the incredible power of human connection. From meticulously tracking spreadsheets to navigating emotions and medical evaluations, both Rich and Cali approached the process with equal heart and grit. In the end, their story reminds us that sharing our struggles can spark unexpected miracles—and that even the smallest connections can change lives.

Rich and Cali represent a major milestone; they were the first successful kidney transplant to come out of the GiftWorks Program pilot. The GiftWorks Program is built on three core pillars that support both transplant recipients and those who step forward as living donors: Education, Support, and Advocacy.  

To learn more about the GiftWorks program that helped make this match possible, visit yourgiftworks.com and check out our show notes.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Donor Diaries, a podcast that explores how people are changing lives through the powerful act of living donation. Tune in to discover how kindness, love and simple acts of giving are transforming lives every day. Welcome back to donor diaries. I'm your host, l Lee, and I'm also the co-founder of the GiftWorks program, which was developed with my partner, amber Kahn.

Speaker 1:

Giftworks is more than just a program. It's a movement designed to empower and support both patients and their living donors. Built on three pillars education, support and advocacy. Our mission is really quite simple advocacy our mission is really quite simple to ensure that kidney patients and their donors feel equally informed, supported and part of an extraordinary life-saving exchange. We piloted this program at the University of Utah, concluding in 2023, and we're now working to scale it to help even more people navigate their transplant and donation journeys. But today's episode goes beyond the nuts and bolts of the GiftWorks program. We're sharing the beautiful story of Rich and Callie, a kidney recipient and kidney donor, who successfully navigated our program and utilized its tools with excellence. Whether you're a patient seeking a donor or a potential donor exploring the donation process, their experience is an inspiring example of what's possible. Exploring the donation process, their experience is an inspiring example of what's possible with the right support. Let's dive in. Welcome to Donor Diaries, callie and Rich. Thanks so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me Rich.

Speaker 1:

let's start with your background. Can you tell us a little bit about why you needed a kidney transplant?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have a family history of polycystic kidney disease. It's multi-generational For me. I've known that I had this disease, probably about 30 plus years. My mom had a transplant early in the history of transplants, and so I've known for a long time that the day was going to come when my kidney function would cease. For a long part of my life I was a workaholic. I didn't do great with diet, I was overweight, and my efforts to sort of get that in line didn't really get serious until I was close to retirement, and by that point the kidney functions were on a ski slope and it was the inevitability that I wasn't going to outlive. The decline of my kidneys became a real thing.

Speaker 1:

And did you assume that you would pursue the wait list and that you would get a kidney through the wait list?

Speaker 2:

That's right. Yeah, I was hoping that the drugs that I was taking would slow the decline, at least sort of flatten that ski slope out, until a deceased donor became available.

Speaker 1:

And what was your introduction to living donation?

Speaker 2:

It was mentioned in passing honestly during the indoctrination of into being on the list, but it didn't really feel like a reality to me because of my family history. So when I thought of a living donor, all I was really thinking about was my immediate family. I wasn't even really thinking friends or people outside my most immediate circle and I knew that pretty much everyone in my immediate circle wouldn't really qualify. I sort of battened down the hatches, tried to get in better shape. I lost weight and I was again trying to flatten that ski slope, thinking I needed to go another three, four or five years and hope that I was still healthy enough for a deceased donor. That was really, honestly. For me that was really the biggest challenge or the biggest fear is that by the time a deceased donor became available I wouldn't be healthy enough to remain on the list. Something would have happened that would have disqualified me from getting a transplant.

Speaker 1:

That's a very legitimate fear, and did you have to go on dialysis during that time?

Speaker 2:

I'm probably one of the luckiest people alive in that regard, in that I was probably maybe a year from having to go on dialysis, so my introduction to alternatives for living donation came at an incredibly opportune time for me. But, honestly, gift works and Dr Molnar that really was the key to me, even considering anything like that. Dr Molnar reached out to me and asked me if I would be willing to be a participant in the pilot, and you know it, honestly, from my perspective, there didn't seem to be at that point any real downside to it. I didn't know exactly what it entailed. He didn't go into a lot of detail about it, and so I said yes.

Speaker 2:

And then I heard from GiftWorks a few weeks later, and that's when I got a more detailed description of what it would entail, and it didn't seem like it was a difficult or overwhelming thing. I just had to get over the issues of do I deserve it, which was kind of an interesting thing to think through. And then the other one was very few people outside my inner circle really knew my situation, and so the conversation was go on social media and tell the world about it and be as efficient and as effective as possible to tell the world about it. So there was a moment of hesitation about that, but it didn't really seem like that much of a negative, considering what the positive outcome of it might be To me.

Speaker 2:

After a moment's hesitation, it seemed like this is a no-brainer, I have to do it. You just have to take that first step and say I can do this. It's not that hard. I mean, how hard is posting on Facebook or even recording a small video on Facebook or any kind of social media outlet? It's not that hard. Gifworks gave me the benefit of some serious expertise in the area that I didn't have, but it's not something that the average person, if they choose to do it, can't do on their own.

Speaker 1:

If it's not hard, why do you think people don't do it? Can't do on their own? If it's not hard, why do you think people don't do it?

Speaker 2:

That's the big question and it's hard for me to answer that, to get into other people's brains that way. But I think the biggest thing for me was I didn't want to delve too much into it because I didn't want to end up sort of overwhelmingly invested in it and not having a positive outcome. It's sort of the risk of putting yourself out there and being rejected and taking that personally. So that's definitely a consideration. I think once you're able to be aware that it exists and that there is a possibility of success, I think more people would try it if it was a better educational process through the transplant community to say this is a real alternative and there are many ways that you can get a kidney. But you have to try, it's not coming to you, you have to go get it. And I just don't think a very big percentage of the people on the list are really aware of that possibility and that's really a shame.

Speaker 1:

It is. What did it feel like to put it out there and how did people respond when you did put it out there?

Speaker 2:

What's interesting is that you're right, I didn't. I wasn't aggressive, I wasn't communicating the situation because I was used to not communicating it over all those many years. Once I got it out there, I really kicked myself for not having done it sooner. I mean, obviously, the timing worked out great for me. Callie was Johnny on the spot when when I really needed it, so it was great.

Speaker 2:

But you know, I probably spent six months, maybe close to a year, of not really getting all of the requirements done to get myself on the transplant list. I can't really tell you why, maybe just the fear of having to face the inevitability of it. You know, as long as I was only just taking pills and I was feeling okay and I was living a normal life, it didn't seem like I really needed to hurry up and do something. It wasn't until the fear of uh-oh, dialysis is a real thing. It's around the corner and it scared the crap out of me that it motivated me to do something. I've told this to many people. I was much more afraid of dialysis than I was of the transplant. But dialysis is a at best a short-term solution, I think, and it changes your life so dramatically that for me the transplant was sort of my only direction that I really wanted to pursue.

Speaker 2:

The other part of your question, the reaction I got and how I felt about putting myself out there honestly it was amazing the number of people that I heard from the responses that I got, the emails, the texts, the conversations that I had. I was a pretty busy guy for probably the first three or four weeks after I first got sort of the launch of the campaign. I was honestly overwhelmed. I was really emotional about how many relationships I revived, people I hadn't heard from or talked to in a really long time. Support. It was rewarding and, honestly, I started thinking at one point that, even if I don't find a donor, just having gotten the word out there and reconnecting with so many people was sort of the reward of the effort. There was still the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but that was a pretty big win along the way as well.

Speaker 1:

Hope and help shows up in very miraculous ways, doesn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it sure does.

Speaker 1:

How did it feel to have not only a strategy but tools laid out for you to leverage in your search for a living donor?

Speaker 2:

That was pretty amazing. I mean, it really helped make it easier for me in terms of diving in. I think one of the things I realized right away was that what I was being provided were tools. It wasn't somebody doing it for me and I just had to stand back and wait for the result to happen. I was being given the tools and then I had to use the tools to benefit myself in the situation, and if I didn't, I wasn't likely going to have success. It was definitely the conduit to help me make it happen and to help me get a positive momentum and a positive attitude about what I had to do. So GIFworks provided me a very, very solid plan and then I just had to execute the plan, get feedback from you guys, as you're doing this great You're. You know we can do a little bit more in this direction and and that was a that was an amazing, amazing help.

Speaker 2:

Not only do you have to be patient, you have to be sort of patient and in the dark. You know, with HIPAA rules, the way they are. I couldn't know where where Callie was in the process. You know she had the ability and and the right to change her mind right up until the not even the 11th hour, the 12th hour, and so it would be wrong for me to have too much information in terms of where she was in the process and then sort of get a high and a low of, oh she's almost there, oh she changed her mind, or she's almost there, or something happened from a health perspective which I don't really have any right to know. So I understand why, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Speaker 1:

What advice would you give somebody who's considering working with the GiftWorks program, Rich?

Speaker 2:

Why are you hesitating? I can't think of anybody going through in their mind and coming up with a strong enough reason that they can justify to not. Do it sense to me that you would allow yourself to go through the struggle and the difficulty and the sort of the one-way street of dialysis or worse without at least giving this a shot? It's not a guaranteed success. I know I was lucky. It just doesn't make sense to me that somebody wouldn't be willing to make a little bit of effort for such a huge reward.

Speaker 1:

What advice do you have to give someone who just feels frozen in creating an action plan, whether it be because they don't feel worthy or they're afraid?

Speaker 2:

Because I had some of that initially as well, and I think that I don't know how you overcome it. I don't. The brain is such a weird thing and it runs so much of our lives, more than anyone is obviously willing to admit in most cases. But if for no other reason, help yourself so that then you can turn around and help others. If you don't help yourself, it's sad and it's almost criminal. I don't know how else to put it. It took me a minute to get there, but you just have to get there and not look back.

Speaker 2:

But I think on two or three occasions both you and Amber said you're worthy, you're worth it, and I think sometimes you just need somebody outside of your own brain to tell you that and then hopefully it permeates and you hear it and I'll say it for anybody listening to the podcast you're worth it, go for it. Don't get in your own way. You know everybody has different versions of kidney disease. But however you got there, it doesn't mean that it's the end or doesn't mean that you have to accept a life on dialysis. Get over yourself and go for it.

Speaker 1:

And has it been worth it? What's life like for you post-transplant?

Speaker 2:

You know it's been great in terms of. I have other things to worry about. I'm an old guy, you know, and you're on immunosuppressants and you go through different steps in terms of getting the meds right and in terms of making sure you don't have side effects, and you know, and all the things that, all the other things that I had issues with before the transplant don't miraculously go away. But that was the huge black cloud on my horizon and now I have little clouds here and there and they're not all. They're not all huge black clouds. So life is still there.

Speaker 2:

The kidney's functioning great. It started functioning within like two or three minutes after they put it in, and which is an amazing thing to think about, just in general of where where sciences and technology is in that case. But all of the stuff that I have to deal with in terms of post-transplant stuff to me seems so minor and so much of a trade-off that I would take a hundred times out of a hundred compared to today. For sure I'd be on dialysis and my life would suck, and my life does not suck. So there isn't any kind of looking back with any kind of I would do things differently in that regard.

Speaker 1:

The GiftWorks program works with all different types of social media and, rich, you said my network is on LinkedIn and you were really adamant about that and we did have a really strong response from people that you worked with in the past that came forward via LinkedIn. But your donor actually saw your post on Facebook. But your donor actually saw your post on Facebook. So, switching gears over to Callie, callie, walk us through how you became aware of Rich's need for a kidney.

Speaker 3:

You know, it's kind of what everyone does on social media. You have some downtime or a minute and you're just kind of, you know, scrolling through. It was a weekend. I have a friend that I used to work with. I haven't spoken to her in 20 years. I've remained to look at on Facebook and she posted and I was scrolling through and I remember scrolling past it and just something I don't know told me go, click on it. I went back, I clicked on it and I read his story and I just, I don't know. It was kind of a weird, crazy moment for me that I thought that's a little strange, where I just thought I feel like I need to help this guy, like I know Rich is. You know was saying like how scary that can be to be vulnerable, but to me that's what I was drawn to, like here's this brave human that's fighting for a chance to live and telling their story and being really vulnerable, and I was really drawn to that.

Speaker 1:

So most people don't see a Facebook post about a stranger, so this was a friend of a friend who needs a kidney and take action to do something about it. What went through your head in terms of saying, okay, I'm going to explore this further.

Speaker 3:

Well, I slept on it a few days and when I couldn't shake the feeling that I at least needed to reach out to that number which happened to be you and get some information, I just was telling myself, like there's, there's a reason, right, there's a reason bigger than me, bigger than there. There's a reason. I'm drawn to this, and part of it was I lost my brother. He was only 40. He died from kidney disease but ironically that he never even wanted information on kidney transplants. He just accepted his fate and wanted to pass away. And even when we brought it up, he said no, no, no. So I had no knowledge on living kidney donation. I didn't really understand it. Knowledge on living kidney donation, I didn't really understand it. So I just that's. When I decided on Sunday to reach out to the number, because I thought let me just at least get some facts right, I didn't know anything. Let me just at least get the facts on. Is this even something I could look into doing?

Speaker 1:

So that's that's beautiful and it's also quite sad that you have somebody in your life that you loved, your brother, who really took the opposite approach that Rich did.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, he put his head in the sand. It was his only response. He called all of us siblings and said he'd had kidney disease for a little while, said his kidney function was either dialysis or transplant and he was done. He was done fighting and he said his last wishes was he wanted to do a sibling trip. So we all met up.

Speaker 3:

We went to Utah, yellowstone, and while we were on the trip I brought it up once. I said, paul, why won't you even consider? And he said no, it's my wishes, it's too hard and that kind of was always in the back of my head too hard, why is a kidney donation on his part too hard? And that really bothered me. So I was really drawn to Rich's story that I'm like here's a man who's not saying, okay, this might be hard, there might be obstacles, but so that was kind of my drive to get more information, like what does this entail? So that was kind of my drive to get more information Like what does this entail, what does this mean? And honestly, I was very drawn to Rich. There was something very genuine about him. I don't know, I could just feel it through the Facebook post. There just was something about him that stood out to me.

Speaker 1:

And I couldn't quite explain it. I do remember when you reached out because you didn't know Rich, and it's very interesting. You're both the type of people who did not let the ball sit in your court for more than 10 seconds. You both had such a strong sense of urgency.

Speaker 3:

Once I got information from you and there was something you said that I have used that just stuck with me. You made the analogy let's say you're walking by with two life preservers and you see someone drowning and you need one, but do you say to that person drowning, I'm going to save this in case somebody I know or I need this other one. And that just hit with me. And that's when I started doing I'm very type A I just thought, okay, I'm going to fill out the information to at least get the ball rolling, because I understood from you it was a process and there were so many unknowns that it wasn't really you know, at that moment of starting to do it, it wasn't something that I'm like oh yeah, this is going to happen. It was more of let's figure this out. And I started researching. You know I'm going to Purdue for my psychology degree, so I have access to a wonderful library and I started researching medical journals and peer reviewed things, you know, not just stuff you can get on Facebook or Wikipedia. So I was really trying to figure out is this right for me? What does this mean for me?

Speaker 3:

But I also drove the process of. I did an Excel sheet of every single test. As soon as I got the results, I entered it gave my coordinator 24 hours If I didn't hear from her. I responded and said saw, the levels are normal of this, this, this, this, this, what's the next step? Like I just drove it because I thought this is me, I'm only one person, she's over many. If I'm going to get the ball rolling, I'm going to stick out so that she's just like pushing it forward.

Speaker 1:

So Rich is smiling and laughing. Why are you smiling and laughing, Rich?

Speaker 2:

Well, because I was doing the same thing, building spreadsheets for how much response each post was getting, and I would look, you know, every day or every couple of days, and I would put the numbers and how the numbers were changing from time to time and trying to figure out is there one post that's better than another type of post? So I was kind of doing the same thing on my end. So that was one of the smiles. The other smile was thinking in terms of I was thinking on my side that it was taking forever and you know, as we talked about before, that I wasn't getting the results that I was kind of hoping would come from this, and in the meantime she's pushing like crazy to speed it up. Parallel paths are pretty incredible.

Speaker 3:

I remember saying numerous times there's someone on the other end that is getting sicker and possibly dying, like can we get this or can we speed this up? And you know, looking back in perspective, I have a lot more appreciation for why it's complicated, why and I respect the process so much more on this side because they are trying to make sure I'm okay. They're trying to make sure they are not going to take a kidney from me. That one isn't going to do well in you or anyone, but also is going to leave me in harm's way. But in that moment I did feel this sense of urgency of to know that you didn't know. That bothered me. I understood why also, but from my standpoint it's like just give the guy some hope, just let him know there's someone that's so driven.

Speaker 2:

I think, both from the recipient and the donor side, there's a lot of confidence building there, knowing all of the steps that she had to go through and all of the opportunities to opt out that someone has along the way. I mean it took months. It's definitely not a decision that's made on the fly or, you know, in the heat of a moment.

Speaker 3:

I researched every result. I got to see. What does this mean, what does this level mean? You know, I wanted to be in the know, I didn't want to just blindly be like. Here's my kidney.

Speaker 1:

Allie, what was the best part for you? Having the opportunity to partner with GiftWorks through your donation process.

Speaker 3:

I think it was the GiftWorks team. Just knowing I had advocates on my side, knowing I had a team outside of Indiana transplant that was going to always look out for me be. Sometimes I had to vent and I needed to talk to people that understood the journey, that have been through it or, you know, we're kind of related to someone that went through it. It was just a different dynamic than venting to family. It was just nice to feel like I had a team that was on my side and looking out for my best interest. I didn't know anything until I talked to gift works. I didn't know about donor shield, I didn't know about the voucher program. That's what I mean. Without gift works I don't think I would have ever heard Rich's story. So I do. I feel like it gave me some really great resources moving forward and then after the donation, it has continued to give me resources. Like I know, I could call up gift works at any given time with anything and they would help me.

Speaker 1:

And what's the best part about being a kidney donor? Kelly?

Speaker 3:

I think for me, this overwhelming feeling that my life isn't the only thing that is important, right, it is a big ripple effect that has happened after the kidney donation. My act of donating kidney did save Rich, but it's also rippled out to many other people becoming aware and stepping up like family members. My daughters, who are all in the medical field, have become very educated with it. But I honestly think the best thing about the whole kidney donation is the way I view my body. Like I have this pride of what my body can do and I always ate well and worked out, but it was more of I need to be this size and this weight and it changed my whole way of thinking of my body's, this amazing thing that grew this kidney for another human. Like I need to feed it and take care of it because I'm proud of what my body could do, if that makes sense that's really beautiful.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for sharing that by the way, that's also created a big sense of guilt every time I eat something bad I still ain't bad being, that's just I don't feel so guilty about it.

Speaker 3:

It's more like callie's pride is rich as shame I still have a glass of wine, occasionally rich, you can have that I got a young type A kidney.

Speaker 2:

You did Callie and I have spoken and you know, I think one of her questions along the way has always been have I changed because of her you know, the strength and power of her kidney, representing who she is? Has it changed me? And actually I think there's there's times where I sort of feel like it does or has Um and and when I think about it always kind of brings a smile to my face and it's it's. It's awesome hearing her side of the story and you know we've had conversations and so it's not the sort of the first time that I've heard it, but each time sort of another nuance comes in and another emotion kind of sweeps through me about it. So it's really cool to be able to do something like this and to be able to have this conversation and kind of renew the relationship and renew the respect for what she's done.

Speaker 1:

Did you just learn something new on our interview today? Not really. Did you just learn something new on our interview?

Speaker 2:

today Not really. I think I knew sort of the in quotations who she was. You know the type of person that she is. It's just kind of refreshing it and hearing it again is always a very cool thing.

Speaker 1:

Callie. Well, rich was a stranger to you. He was a friend of a friend. You did have kind of an unusual reference that you found out about to be able to find out a little bit more about who Rich was. Do you want to tell us about that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So I started the process in January. I waited a little while to tell my siblings just because with the loss of my brother I knew it would kind of be an emotional thing and I wanted to make sure it's further along in. So in March I did a zoom call with my siblings, told them they were so supportive, hung up the phone and two minutes later my brother Ryan calls me and says wait, who did you say? And I said his name's Rich Charka. And he said Kelly. That was my old boss at market star, like. So he worked with rich and vouched for him and said he was a great guy and he just couldn't believe what a small world it really is that here this is the man I'm giving my kidney to. That Ryan knew him.

Speaker 1:

How does that make you feel Rich?

Speaker 2:

I didn't work with Ryan that long and he did a good job for us. He was a good employee, but it wasn't somebody that was particularly close to. He worked at the company for quite a while but in in terms of our direct uh connection, it wasn't that strong, and so I was really overwhelmed, you know, in terms of all all of the response that I'd gotten from from previous coworkers was great, and so to see another strong connection was really cool. Honestly, it's just another little bit of evidence of how incredibly fortunate I've been through this whole process that something like that happened, and I think the strongest part of that honestly was I think it helped Callie to validate that she was doing it for somebody that hopefully she felt was worthy of it, and so I appreciate that aspect of it a lot.

Speaker 1:

I will say at that point I know Callie was going to do it, no matter what.

Speaker 3:

I was going to do it, rich, even if he said I was a jerk, I would have been like well, get my kidney Ryan, it was happening.

Speaker 2:

I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 3:

I will say, like all these little things along the way, look at all the signs, look at everything that has led into this. It made it so much easier to go and go through and donate. It just eased my mind knowing all those little tiny connections that happened along the way.

Speaker 1:

So it did help. That's the best part about what I get to do is all the miraculous little things that happen like that, and it's rare that I see two people come together where I don't see all those those little tiny things that add up into a miracle, and it's what life's about.

Speaker 3:

That's why I say I think this whole thing is bigger than me. It's bigger than rich. Not everyone's going to donate a kidney, right, but everyone can do a little something, just like you can share your KitKat, you can talk about it, you can spread information. I mean, you can do little things. Not everyone has to be a donor, but you can talk about it and you can educate each other about it.

Speaker 2:

Through my whole outreach process, going back to thinking about whether you're worthy or not, or you know the difficulty of asking someone to donate I made it a point through everything that I did not to ever ask anyone to donate a kidney. I didn't feel comfortable reaching out to someone and say, would you consider donating your kidney to me? But I felt very comfortable asking someone to help me spread the word about my situation. And maybe, Lori, that's part of the answer to the question you asked about someone being frozen and not being able to move forward is don't think about asking people to donate their kidney. Ask about helping spread the word of your situation. That's an easy ask. Helping spread the word is as simple as a click on a computer. That's something that anyone could do.

Speaker 1:

Helping spread the word is as simple as a click on a computer. That's something that anyone could do. Just tell people to tell your story, that people hear it and it slides through their brain and goes straight to their heart, and I think that that's exactly what Callie described. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2:

Good thing I didn't ask for her heart.

Speaker 3:

Rich. I need that.

Speaker 1:

Is there anything else you guys want to say to each other or to our audience today?

Speaker 3:

No, just that. I'm going to get a shirt that says what'd you say? Johnny on the spot. I've not that, just aged you, I have not heard. I'm going to get a shirt that says Callie, AKA Johnny on the spot.

Speaker 2:

Here's your.

Speaker 1:

Christmas present. Rich, there you go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know where these sayings come from or where I pull that out of, but it's such a great match and we have such a good relationship. Post this how do we copy and paste?

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's what gift works is doing is sort of you know, I'm glad we were sort of the pilot and hopefully they can copy and paste thousands of times what what we've been able to accomplish together and uh, and, and that would be just a phenomenal outcome from being part of the pilot.

Speaker 3:

I think from a donor standpoint. In my opinion, my reason for doing it was something deep within me I don't have any expectations Was something deep within me. I don't have any expectations, I don't know. I feel like when you give something away, like a kidney, you're not giving it with the expectation that I get to now know what's happening with that kidney every step of the way. It's yours, it's no longer mine. I don't have any pull on that anymore whatsoever. So you don't owe me anything, rich.

Speaker 2:

I have to do right by it. I've received this tremendous gift and it would be irresponsible of me to not look at it that way and not treat it that way.

Speaker 3:

I mean, my, my goal is yeah, hopefully you'll live a very, very long beautiful life, but I also don't want that to be a long beautiful life where you're not living and enjoying life Like that's supposed to want that to be a long beautiful life where you're not living and enjoying life Like that's supposed to be the whole point right.

Speaker 1:

Well, for me it's been incredible to see you both do just that, not just live your lives fully, but to watch both of you then immediately jump into advocacy work in the transplant space. You guys are just truly an inspiration and you illustrate how you make the magic happen in donors and recipients coming together. Thanks for piloting with us.

Speaker 2:

It's been awesome. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, bye you guys. Bye guys To our listeners. Thank you so much for tuning into Donor Diaries. If you've enjoyed this episode, if you enjoy this podcast, please be sure to follow the podcast wherever you're listening. It's free and you'll automatically get new episodes as soon as they're released. And if you haven't already, leaving a quick rating and review helps more people discover these important stories. So if you are a regular listener and haven't done that yet, we'd be so grateful if you took a moment to do it. It really makes a difference. Want to keep the conversation going? Find the Donor Diaries podcast on Facebook and drop us a comment. We'd love to hear from you To learn more about GiftWorks, the sponsor of season three of Donor Diaries. Visit yourgiftworkscom and check out our show notes for more information. Here's to putting more good into the world. One story, one act of kindness, one life at a time, until next time. This is Lori Lee signing off. I just want to feel the sunshine. I share this life with you. I share this life with you. Bye.

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Laurie Lee

Host